Transcript from a meeting with James Eaton on 29 October, 2016
Q: I have to have another go, because I’m not getting it you know.
James: Ok, so tell me a belief, any belief that you have now.
Q: That I am this (points to his body), and this (points to his legs), and all these people are here…
James: So that’s a very useful way of expressing what’s going on here, and that’s part of this dance, so now we can have a conversation, and a meeting, and then we’ll have lunch together and we’ll be chatting and enjoying each other, all these different flavours, really celebrating this ‘whatever-it-is’. So that appearance of differentiation allows all that play. So now let’s look at it in a different way – let’s look at it without going into the thought frame…
So now you don’t know what you are, but here you are, whatever-you-are, yeah? Here you are, knowing this experience. So when you see me you are seeing colours, and you would say: “All these colours are out there, separate from ‘me’.” Then look a bit closer at this ‘me’, look at this here, this thing you call ‘your leg’, what do you see? Without the labels – ‘leg’, ‘me’, ‘mine’…
Q: Shapes, colours…
James: Shapes, colours. So what’s the difference between ‘your leg’ and ‘me – James’, without the labels ‘me’ and ‘not me’?
Q: There is no difference.
James: No. Oh, you might say, but there is sensation here (points to leg) and not over there. Ok, so there is also sensation appearing to whatever-you-are. In fact you don’t experience sensation separate from colour, that’s already a false distinction as well. There is no separate channel that says: “This is sensation input, this is colour input.” It comes as one undivided whole. So whether you are looking at these colours that make up me, James, or those colours-sensations that make up your legs, can you divide any of them from the knowing of them?
James: No. So where are the two things?
James: What your actual experience is telling you, is that You, this Knowing presence, is being not only those colours-sensations that make up ‘your’ body, but also these colours that make up ‘my’ body, these sounds, this room, these people, this meeting, this message, this weekend, this life, this entire play of being. Not you, the personal self – that’s also appearing…
So see what doesn’t agree with that, see what says, “No!” Really get clear, really clear, really precisely clear on what it is that doesn’t like that. That doesn’t hear it. You don’t need to look for it. It’s already revealing itself. You just get more sensitive to picking up on it.
What are you feeling right now?
James: Yeah, lost. Because it’s too much, so we zone out. We are just in the dark fumbling now.
Q: Again and again and again…
James: Yeah, because to see the clarity of what’s being said, it’s too much. So what happens, some people get the fog coming down, they are looking at me but they can’t see, it’s total shutdown.
Q: I understand it, it’s clear what you are saying, absolutely. And as you say, yes, that’s the way it is, and then…(snaps his fingers)
James: So now we start to feel into it. Because there is a fear there, there is a fear there that brings this sense of being lost. So let’s look into ‘lost’. Tell me how ‘lost’ is showing up.
Q: There is a fear, yes, yeah.
James: Ah, yeah. Now, that fear. How is that fear showing up? What did you then register that made you say it’s a fear? Tell me about it.
Q: A thought, something going on in here (points to his stomach)
James: Ah, yeah, so go there now…Really feel that…What is it, is it hot? Cold? Tight?
Q: No, it’s just churned up.
James: Churned up, yeah. Great. Feel that ‘churned up’. Be with that ‘churned up’. See if it reveals anything. Really listen to it. This is your guide. Maybe some thoughts come out of there, or some feelings, or some images, or maybe nothing at all – it doesn’t matter. Just stay with that. Not trying to squeeze something out of it, just being the space, this aware openness.
Q: It’s really difficult to stay with it. I want to escape.
James: Yeah. Great. So see that. You see this is what I’m saying – we’ll keep doing this, all over the weekend – become the master of your own experience. You. You, capital Y. Don’t rely on anyone else. You. See it. See it so clearly, crystal clear, what’s going on. If something doesn’t want to stay with that feeling, that’s ok, you don’t have an agenda, You. But maybe a new sensitivity comes in, and you start to notice what it is that’s trying to get away from that feeling. You are just listening, listening… following the thread, the golden thread. There is the feeling… see if you can hear the voice of what wants to move away.
Q: Everything wants to move away right now.
James: See how your arms are now crossing over the body, to protect, then the hand goes to the chin, the classic ‘thinker’ pose, “I need to work this out.” See the tendency to retreat into thought. Stay with the feeling, yeah? Do you see the pattern? You go back into: “I have to work this out.” You don’t need to work this out, you can’t work this out. Use a different way, come down, down into that feeling, listen to it…
Q: Seems …totally ….vulnerable
James: Yeah, beautiful. Come into that, that vulnerability… ah…
If there is a thought, what’s it saying?
Q: It’s sort of chaotic.
James: Yeah, so allow the chaos, let it all happen, let it spin. What you are doing is you are becoming more and more familiar and acquainted with the feeling of vulnerability, being that. It’s this very strange paradox, because what you are that’s being that, is completely invulnerable. And it’s as that invulnerability that we can actually open to vulnerability, and really rejoice in it. That tender open heartedness, that’s where the divisions fall apart. The common belief is, we can’t afford to be vulnerable and open to that degree, because someone’s gonna step in our face.
Q: Yeah, that’s right.
James: Yeah, that’s an old, old belief. And maybe at one point it was true, maybe it was true then. So that served you, and now it’s redundant. I want you to try and trust in this openness, don’t try and find something in the chaos of thought, don’t try and find something to hold onto again. Just let it do its thing. Look for your security here, in being. Here is your true support. This is the shift, really. Otherwise we will always be going back into those ideas.
Q: Yes, that’s what I have been doing.
James: Yeah, what we are doing here is drawing the centre of gravity out of there into this vulnerability, into beingness. Because the irony is, this is where your true security is. It’s not in that chaos of thought.
Q: I understand that, but I don’t feel it.
James: Yeah. Because it is terrifying for the idea of self. It’s drawing you into the very place, this vulnerable, fragile place that most of us, most of our lives, are trying to get away from, cover over. So it’s courageous.
Q: I think I’ll have to let that soak in a bit.
James: Yeah, there’s no rush.
Q: Thank you.